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An Architect's View

CFML, Clojure, Software Design, Frameworks and more...

An Architect's View

How not to develop Open Source Software?

January 16, 2006 · 92 Comments

A certain CFer's blog just posted some thoughts on how they would develop open source software:
I would think my goal would be to ... make sure the code was as complex as possible ... so that nobody would ever want to spend any amount of time working on the code ...
They have several other things to say about open source software development (including releasing updates "as often as possible") and criticizing a widely-used application framework for being slow (based on just a "hello world" example). The upside of blogging is that everyone gets to say their piece in public. The downside of blogging is that everyone gets to say their piece in public. At least they have the decency to say "I am no expert when it comes to Open Source Development" - as if that wasn't obvious. It's rare that I "roast" anyone in public and very rare that I do it on my blog but this particular blog has been little more than an advertising campaign for a piece of software they produced (almost every single post mentions it - and it appears in all the RSS feeds). This sort of behavior does our community no favors at all.

Tags: blogging

92 responses so far ↓

  • 1 Phil Douglas // Jan 16, 2006 at 7:42 PM

    I would think my goal would be to only provide my source code as scanned jpgs :P
  • 2 john Wilker // Jan 16, 2006 at 8:02 PM

    I write my code in Pig Latin. it's open for all to download as they like. I update every leap year :)
  • 3 Paul Kenney // Jan 16, 2006 at 8:35 PM

    A very unfortunate misuderstanding of the open source community, I must say. Its a pity, since he should really *know better* after 30 years of development.
  • 4 Steve Collins // Jan 16, 2006 at 9:37 PM

    Name 'em and shame 'em (too lazy to look on MXNA)
  • 5 Brad // Jan 16, 2006 at 10:15 PM

    I think this guy has had one too many Jolt Colas. I get exhausted just reading his blog. Its also nice of him trying to profit off of _Ray's_ work.
  • 6 Dave Ross // Jan 16, 2006 at 10:18 PM

    I'll be posting some of the choice comments from that one - unbelievable!
  • 7 jim collins // Jan 16, 2006 at 11:03 PM

    Talk about completely missing the point...
    It seems that he has no understanding at all of open source licensing and is afraid that someone else will take his precious code and republish it. Thats the only way I can make sense of his post.

    Ironically enough I released JavaClassLoader on CFCzone today. I hope I made it simple and easy enough to understand for anyone to "pick-up my code and run with it faster than I could run with it" and "make it better than it can be made by myself."

  • 8 Lola Lee Beno // Jan 17, 2006 at 2:16 AM

    I hope that he will be willing to spend a lot of time fixing bugs because that's a given, if he's going to make his codes complex.
  • 9 zwetan // Jan 17, 2006 at 2:53 AM

    this guy is _NOT_ doing open source development at all... he's doing the contrary!
  • 10 fenin // Jan 17, 2006 at 4:06 AM

    He doesnt even allow you to add a comment!!!
  • 11 fenin // Jan 17, 2006 at 4:06 AM

    He doesnt even allow you to add a comment!!!
  • 12 The Rabid CF Developer // Jan 17, 2006 at 5:00 AM

    Well except you missed the point of what was said... My "suggestions" were for those who like to cry and moan about those others who like to take Open Source code and make modifications and then release encrypted modules that contain said enhanced code and then imply a donation might be made to get the encrypted source code... Blah, blah, blah. To keep people from using your code you could make it overly complex so then you would not have to moan about those who find it easy to use your code. Does any of this make any sense to anyone else because it makes no sense to me and thus my "suggestions" were also nonsensical.

    In other words, if you code Open Source code then be happy when people use it for whatever purpose they find suitable. End of comment.
  • 13 Joe Rinehart // Jan 17, 2006 at 5:24 AM

    > Well except you missed the point of what was said...
    > My "suggestions" were for those who like to cry and
    > moan about those others who like to take Open Source
    > code and make modifications and then release encrypted
    > modules that contain said enhanced code and then imply
    > a donation might be made to get the encrypted source code...

    It may have helped clarify your point if it was made in this context, rather than assuming people had read all of the comments on one of your previous posts.

    > Blah, blah, blah. To keep people from using your code you
    > could make it overly complex so then you would not have
    > to moan about those who find it easy to use your code.

    More sensibly, you could just use the GPL license.

    > Does any of this make any sense to anyone else because it
    > makes no sense to me and thus my "suggestions" were also
    > nonsensical.

    This quote makes absolutely no sense to me.

    > In other words, if you code Open Source code then be happy
    > when people use it for whatever purpose they find suitable.

    No. Absolutely not. Open Source developers protect themselves through their choice of licenses. You are *not* allowed to do whatever you wish with any Open Source product you find. For instance, it would be illegal for you to create and distribute a closed-source, derivative work built on top of Model-Glue (not the same as using Model-Glue to create a closed-source application. That's library use, not extension.)

    Ray, unfortunately, did not provide a license with his BlogCFC, and, for now, is stuck with you doing whatever you choose to do with it. I would (and will) encourage him to look into his ability, as copyright holder, to retroactively apply an Open Source license - he has made no explicity "public domain" statement.
  • 14 zwetan // Jan 17, 2006 at 5:44 AM

    rat_bit_dev wrote:
    > In other words, if you code Open Source code
    > then be happy when people use it for whatever
    > purpose they find suitable.

    at the second you are encrypting your source code,
    you have no right to declare it open source.
    "encrypted source" vs "open source", this really does not ring a bell ???

    For the rest of your comment, it just show you have no idea how open source software works either on the community, the copyright, or the spirit level.

    Joe Rinehart wrote:
    > Ray, unfortunately, did not provide a license
    > with his BlogCFC, and, for now, is stuck with
    > you doing whatever you choose to do with it.
    > I would (and will) encourage him to look into
    > his ability, as copyright holder, to
    > retroactively apply an Open Source license
    > he has made no explicity "public domain"
    > statement.

    I could not agree more.
    Although, I doubt you can apply retroactively a license, but Ray could easyly define an open source licence (or anyother) for all further developments/releases of his software because he still the rigthfull owner of the copyright.
  • 15 Kal-el // Jan 17, 2006 at 6:51 AM

    can i offer this then.. since there is no license?

    the decrypted files of of "horn's" blog?
    hache-tee-tee-pee colon
    slash
    shash
    rapidshare.de/files/11224720/decrypts.zip.html
  • 16 Ray Horn // Jan 17, 2006 at 7:27 AM

    Well just for the record, I am perfectly within my rights to take open source code that stipulated I only need to maintain the copyright notice in the comments and then make modifications to it, encrypt my mods, and then freely give the code away open source and encrypted code alike. Now then, exactly what terms of the orginal license agreement did I violate ?

    Also from a purely legal viewpoint, "fair use rules" allow me to take open source and make modifications and then freely publish those modifications along with the open source as a way to "teach" others about programming and this is what I did. I have asked for donations but you know what ? Nobody has given any and I could care less. I have a day job that pays my bills.
  • 17 john Wilker // Jan 17, 2006 at 7:32 AM

    "I have asked for donations but you know what ? Nobody has given any"

    Can't imagine why :)
  • 18 Ray Horn // Jan 17, 2006 at 7:39 AM

    Is there anything less intelligent than crying about something nodody cares about ?

    Why not cry about world peace or the whales or something with merits ?!? Hmmm ?
  • 19 Nathan Derksen // Jan 17, 2006 at 10:06 AM

    > Ray, unfortunately, did not provide a license with his BlogCFC, and, for now, is stuck with you doing whatever you choose to do with it.

    No, without a license, the normal copyrights of the work are in force. A license clarifies what can be done with the copyrighted work, but it does not transfer any copyright authority. As copyright holder, the original Ray is within his rights to order the other Ray to cease and decist. A license is a good idea, though, in that it makes explicit what can be done with this work, and may have averted this situation. Without a license, copyrights still have legal power.

    IANAL, yadda yadda yadda

    Nathan
  • 20 The Rabid CF Developer // Jan 17, 2006 at 10:20 AM

    Normal copyright law allows for something known as "Fair Use" - do some research.

    Anyway, I have recanted my evil ways and have removed all modified copies of BlogCFC from my Downloads section - I guess the CF Community really hates it when people like me choose to actually "try" to use their otherwise obviously buggy code that was orginally quite useless.

    I will refrain from using any more Open Source code from the CF Community going forward and I call for everybody else to boycott Open Source Code lest they be punished for actually trying to use it.

    I will code my own Blogware just as soon as I have perfected the Rabid_AJAX(tm) Framework and am able to protect my own intellectual property the way it should be protected through electronic means.

    My apologies to Ray Camden for having tried to actually use his BlogCFC "product" - sorry I was too stupid to be able to use it out-of-the-box had then had to modify it because my "silly" brain must be wired backwards.

    I would appreciate it if the CF COmmunity were to leave my Blog site alone other than to walk-by and mildly curse it assuming it serves no other purpose than that. In the meantime, I will work on my own products and Blog my heart away as if anyone really cared.

    Thx.
  • 21 charlie griefer // Jan 17, 2006 at 10:28 AM

    Jesus man you just keep digging deeper and deeper don't you?

    "I guess the CF Community really hates it when people like me choose to actually "try" to use their otherwise obviously buggy code that was orginally quite useless."

    "sorry I was too stupid to be able to use it out-of-the-box had then had to modify it because my "silly" brain must be wired backwards."

    um...hundreds of people seem to find it quite useful out of the box. but yeah...i'm sure it's not you. i'm sure it's the software. not you at all.
  • 22 The Rabid CF Developer // Jan 17, 2006 at 10:35 AM

    Let's just call me a worst-case-test-scenario and be done with it, shall we ?

    I have already apolgized for having been stupid. What more can I do ?

  • 23 zwetan // Jan 17, 2006 at 10:47 AM

    rat_bid_dev wrote:
    "[...] and I call for everybody else to boycott Open Source Code lest they be punished for actually trying to use it."

    hahaha good luck with that, I'm pretty sure with all your expertise with OSS that a lot of people gonna follow your twisted advice.

    here another advice
    go read that book www.producingoss.com
    and try to learn something!
  • 24 The Rabid CF Developer // Jan 17, 2006 at 10:59 AM

    And that's why you felt the need to make a comment on it ?

    There is an old saying, "...even negative publicity is publicity...".

    Before too long I am sure to be a household name.

    BTW - This is how most celebrities remain in the news - by doing or saying things that cause people to react by talking about them.

    Thanks for the "publicity". Keep it coming.

    Like my Blog title says, "...I will turn the Rapid Development [world] upside down...". And I believe this is what I am doing, right on this rather public Blog. ;-)
  • 25 jim collins // Jan 17, 2006 at 10:59 AM

    Another reading list suggestion:
    The Cathedral and the Bazaar
    h t t p ://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/cathedral-bazaar/
  • 26 Stabellina // Jan 17, 2006 at 11:09 AM

    Sorry if this has been said, but why is this guy pretending not to understand that the problem is NOT the changes he made to the blogCFC.

    The problem is that he took a completely free open source application, added a few changes, and then proceeded to hold them hostage unless you pay him a "donation".

    Obviously, HE is the one who doesn't understand how the CF Community works.

    He also thinks he will get publicity out of this... that eventually all we will remember is his name and not his behavior? He doesn't understand the way that works either. This is a relatively close knit community, and there will always be someone to comment in his stead "isn't this the idiot that added changes to blogCFC then held the source code hostage pending a ransom?"

    Then there is the rayhornsucks blog someone put up ealier. LOL
  • 27 JesusWept // Jan 17, 2006 at 11:09 AM

    rayhornsucks.onesite.com *cough cough* :)
  • 28 stabellina // Jan 17, 2006 at 11:19 AM

    ... not to mention, any time anyone Googles for him, he'll now have this whole scandal appear.

    So, unless he changes his name or his "brand"... the "no such thing as negative publicity" is moot.
  • 29 Scott Stroz // Jan 17, 2006 at 11:26 AM

    I have already apolgized for having been stupid. What more can I do ?

    You did? When was that?
  • 30 celine // Jan 17, 2006 at 11:28 AM

    Hei Rabid CF Developer guy,Why are you commenting here? You are famous now! You are a celibrity(+YOU HAVE A PITA).Dont comment for you on someone else's blog..That aint cool man.So go home and blog there....
  • 31 Stabellina // Jan 17, 2006 at 11:29 AM

    Good point... not to mention, he disabled the ability to comment on his own blog.
  • 32 The Rabid CF Developer // Jan 17, 2006 at 11:30 AM

    Oh, I am sorry... I noticed some people doing this to my Blog so I thought this was the way the CF Community did things. Was I mistaken or was my Blog just raped ?
  • 33 The Rabid CF Developer // Jan 17, 2006 at 11:32 AM

    Yeah, the changes I made to BlogCFC 4.0.2 are still being held hostage and will be held hostage forever along with whatever other changes I desire to make to the original albeig *buggy* BlogCFC 4.0.2. Sorry folks but the orginal problem remains unresolved but that's wat happens when a few bad apples choose to rape my Blog to make thier point(s). I turn "RABID" !
  • 34 stabellina // Jan 17, 2006 at 11:32 AM

    Yes, typically comments are allowed on blog entries. You just didn't like what they said on yours, so you censored them. Maybe if we give you a "donation" you'll let us see them, hey?
  • 35 The Rabid CF Developer // Jan 17, 2006 at 11:34 AM

    Donate all you want - but nobody comments on my Blog but me. Sorry...

    Nobody TrackBacks but me also...
  • 36 stabellina // Jan 17, 2006 at 11:36 AM

    Again showing your true "rabid" colors. This is the publicity you've garnered for yourself. When I think of you, I think of a small yapping dog frothing at the mouth after being scolded for crapping on the floor.
  • 37 celine // Jan 17, 2006 at 11:38 AM

    Hei "Rabies" CF Developer..are you seriosly sick of yourself?Do you want a free pizza? Might be that you should take a break and count the pixles on your screen.When you blog,there is certain reponsibility.If you dont take care of it,people will compare you to... well..u know what ..Mr..
  • 38 celine // Jan 17, 2006 at 11:43 AM

    Can you please delete the "STUPID" blog entry from your blog?You are a great man.You a RABID MAN.Mr..
  • 39 The Rabid CF Developer // Jan 17, 2006 at 11:48 AM

    Look, I am tired of having to adjust my Blog to make everyone happy. 'Nuff said !
  • 40 stabellina // Jan 17, 2006 at 11:49 AM

    I think she was being facetious. ;)
  • 41 The Rabid CF Developer // Jan 17, 2006 at 11:49 AM

    Again showing your true "rabid" colors. This is the publicity you've garnered for yourself. When I think of you, I think of a small yapping dog frothing at the mouth after being scolded for crapping on the floor.

    Yes but you will "think of me" and that's the purpose of publicity.      
  • 42 celine // Jan 17, 2006 at 11:51 AM

    You are tired?!!!!!! HA! Even without an option to comment,you are tired???Man ,you are a hero!
  • 43 stabellina // Jan 17, 2006 at 11:54 AM

    No, see, you didn't pay attention in Journalism class. The "there's no such thing as negative publicity" idea doesn't work in an atmosphere such as this. We're not the general public. You may think people will forget all about your selfish behavior a year from now, but they won't. Someone will say to someone else,

    "Hey.. have you heard of this guy? He has applied to work here, and I am thinking of hiring him."

    Anyone who has witnessed today's events or googles you up will see all this and say "forget it. That guy is _______." Insert what you want... trouble, obnoxious, selfish, etc.

    This will also apply when you really do write an application from scratch and want "donations" for it. You're setting yourself up for a boycott. :/
  • 44 celine // Jan 17, 2006 at 12:09 PM

    Rabid thing, listen to stabellina .Its good for you.
  • 45 Nathan Derksen // Jan 17, 2006 at 12:11 PM

    > Normal copyright law allows for something known as "Fair Use" - do some research.

    Yes, I am quite familiar with the concept of fair use - "The right set forth in Section 107 of the United States Copyright Act, to use copyrighted materials for certain purposes, such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research".

    Re-distribution is very clearly not covered by fair use, nor is any commercial gain.
  • 46 The Rabid CF Developer // Jan 17, 2006 at 12:25 PM

    Ah, but "fair use" in the context of a Blog site that was established to support and foster the science of programming in which every single post is designed to teach something - the "fair use" allows me to demonstrate my talents by making copyrighted materials available for people to download for FREE. Perhaps someone needs to file a lawsuit against me to see if this can become a precedent because I can site more than enough cases that support my claims of "fair use". In the meantime, get over it, or pony up the bucks to prove your case in court.
  • 47 Jesuswept // Jan 17, 2006 at 12:29 PM

    Don't you claim to be a lawyer?
  • 48 Scott Stroz // Jan 17, 2006 at 12:31 PM

    Everyone else has been realtively civil in their comments about this whole fiasco, I don't plan on doing so.

    Ray Horn, you are an ass, plain and simple.

    To be honest, I could care less if your tactics are legal. At the very least, they are profoundly unethical. Nothing you can do or say will get us in the CF Community to understand you view point, much less agree with it.
  • 49 stabellina // Jan 17, 2006 at 12:35 PM

    "the "fair use" allows me to demonstrate my talents by making copyrighted materials available for people to download for FREE."

    Dimwit... if you had offered the source code FOR FREE, then NONE OF THIS WOULD HAVE OCCURED TODAY. What people are peeved about is that you encrypted the code and offered it only to those who leave a DONATION. You may think you were being crafty with the term "donation", but it is quite apparent from any and all standpoints, including legal, that you expect MONEY in return for sharing your code.

    People are upset because you took code that was generously open sourced, added something to it, then held it hostage for a ransom. Donation. Whatever you want to call it.

    Don't pretend you don't understand the problem. No one cares that you updated the code. Perhaps if you put it on your blog and this time TRULY offered it FOR FREE w/o any encryption B.S., people would lay off you. You could even put "donations appreciated" at the end of the entry.
  • 50 The Rabid CF Developer // Jan 17, 2006 at 12:35 PM

    I claim to be "RABID" - lol.
  • 51 Roger Lancefield // Jan 17, 2006 at 12:36 PM

    I heard he eats babies too!

    OK, he made a mistake and his apology was rather resentful, but this baying of the hounds, it's starting to resemble a digg.com lynching...
  • 52 stabellina // Jan 17, 2006 at 12:38 PM

    Apology? He apologized pretending not to understand the problem and encouraging people to boycott open source code. (As if. lol)
  • 53 The Rabid CF Developer // Jan 17, 2006 at 12:40 PM

    Ethics and morality ?

    Will you give me a break please !

    When it becomes ethical for AllBusiness.Com to hire someone like me and then fire someone like me in less than 30 days, which made me unemployed for a short time, then I believe ethics are no longer an issue and one must give-n to enlighted self-interest as the driving factor.

    My actions have been 100% legal and support by case law in this country and as such I shall continue to do my thing the same as everyone else who Blogs. For all intents and purposes a Blog site is a personal site and non-commercial just like one's "portfolio" which by-the-by can contain materials that are copyrighted by others to be used as it suits the one who owns the portfolio.

    But go ahead and prove me wrong and let's change the world forever.
  • 54 stabellina // Jan 17, 2006 at 12:41 PM

    So you just admitted to putting someone else's work into your portfolio. Gee, can I hire you?
  • 55 stabellina // Jan 17, 2006 at 12:44 PM

    BTW, there are plenty of CF folks who find themselves in between contracts with bills to pay. No excuse.
  • 56 Scott Stroz // Jan 17, 2006 at 12:50 PM

    You are justifying your unethical paractices based on the fact that you were fired? (I noticed you do not claim you practices are ethical, and in fact admit they are unethical).

    I think your mistake here was to try and take advantage of one of the most giving of the CF Commutiny, Ray Camden.

    Bottom line - you were wrong it what you did. And keep in mind that often times there is a big difference between right/wrong and legal/illegal.
  • 57 Daniel Greenfeld // Jan 17, 2006 at 12:56 PM

    Can't we all just get along?

    Can we lay off the slams on Ray Horn? He made several mistakes, did his best to apologize, and has rescinded his version of Ray's software. Sure, you might not like how he worded things, but I think it is time we let it drop and move on.

    Doesn't Mystic come out soon? And CFDJ's framework comparison! Lets talk about those things instead.

    And yes, I just posted this to Ray's blog.
  • 58 Jesuswept // Jan 17, 2006 at 12:58 PM

    Ray Horn did NOT do his best to apologise, he said "im sorry now please leave me alone" and as SOON as he said that he said that Ray Camden was JEALOUS because Rays BlogCFC couldn't stand up to the "professionalism" that is Hornfaces adapted BlogCFC

    So are you telling me that an apology? cos its not.
  • 59 Scott Stroz // Jan 17, 2006 at 1:00 PM

    I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't consider what Ray Horn did/said/typed to be an apology.

    The problem is he doesn't see (or doesn't want to see) why we are all enraged by his unethical actions. Until that time, any 'apology' is suspect, at best.
  • 60 stabellina // Jan 17, 2006 at 1:01 PM

    Don't like the way he "worded" things?

    "Personally I think the real deal was that the original author's code was beginning to leok less than professional alongside the changes I had made[...]"


    "[...] lest the CF Community pummel me about the head and shoulders to daring to publish fixes to their obvious bugs and ommissions."

    You call this a poorly worded apology? I call it insulting, spiteful, and the pretense of not understanding the root of the problem... namely that he tried to CHARGE for minor changes to open source code.

    If you are satisfied by that, so be it. I am not, and until he quits last-wording with excuses... many people won't be.
  • 61 Steve Collins // Jan 17, 2006 at 1:05 PM

    Hey, Sean! How about you call "time" on this one? I think all the players have made their positions clear. It's caused a stir (deservedly so), Ray C is still a good guy, Ray H is... well... somewhat repentant although still belligerent.

    Traffic has been flying around the blogosphere (my related post has the highest traffic *ever* for any post on my blog) on a matter that is of WAY less criticality than some on the interesting work we're all doing which we want to *share*.

    How about it?
  • 62 Daniel Greenfeld // Jan 17, 2006 at 1:05 PM

    I'm not going to argue about what makes a good apology or not, or if he tried his hardest. I'm not going to get dragged into that kind of semantic discussion where we are trying to judge what someone is thinking based off something they wrote in the rush of emotion.

    What I am saying is that we as members of the ColdFusion community have made our voices heard, the problematic person has apologized and removed the offending code.

    End of story.

    Maybe not.

    Our little community is not taking prisoners today. Instead I see people continueing their attacks on him and his person. I don't know this guy, but I do know the CF community. Normally I just lurk, but I am always happy by how friendly and good we are to each other. This is why I like to stay in the CFMX world, because everyone is so cool to each other.

    But not today.

    People aren't willing to let things go.

    And that saddens me.
  • 63 stabellina // Jan 17, 2006 at 1:08 PM

    So be sad, and by all means don't subscribe to some of the community lists or you will occasionally be so heartbroken that you might even turn to ASP. ;)
  • 64 jim collins // Jan 17, 2006 at 1:21 PM

    I reading this thread I am reminded of this wonderful poster:
    h t t p://www.despair.com/mis24x30prin.html
  • 65 Sean Corfield // Jan 17, 2006 at 1:27 PM

    Since I'm running an old version of Ray Camden's BlogCFC, I don't currently have a way to turn off comments on a given entry. I wrote a custom front (using Fusebox 4.1 - which I gave away as Free Open Source, BTW) and never kept up with Ray Camden's updates, sorry.

    This discussion will run its course and what people have said here will in turn speak volumes about their own attitudes (and whether they should end up on your own personal DNH list).
  • 66 Scott Stroz // Jan 17, 2006 at 1:49 PM

    One final comment from me and I am done.

    I took a look at Mr. Horn's encrypted code, and it seems as if he is tryng to make money another way. He has HIS Google Ad-sense ID hardcoded into one of the pages.

    That is lower than low. You should be ashamed of yourself.
  • 67 The Rabid CF Developer // Jan 17, 2006 at 1:56 PM

    Oh, my, my, my, how dare I try to make money... Shame on me for that one ! *gasps*

    Everyone else got to post a URL without so much as doing so and here's mine:
    h t t p://rayhorn.contentopia.net/blog/

    2x the number of hits in a single day ! Woot !
  • 68 stabellina // Jan 17, 2006 at 2:01 PM

    Ah, no wonder it was encrypted. So you would have the chance to pull that lowlife crap out of there before sending it on.

    If you really want to make money, whore yourself out for sex. I mean, you sound like you don't care about ethics when it comes to money. Why stop here?
  • 69 Scott Stroz // Jan 17, 2006 at 2:08 PM

    I lied, I am not done.

    Ray Horn, its not that you are trying to make money, its the underhanded way in which you are going about it.

    Hardcoding your ad-sense ID into an encrypted page is,in my mind, paramount to adware or spryware. It would be a different story if it were mentioned anywhere in a file that could be read without makeing a 'donation'. You truly are scum.

    What's next, ads from the son of a dead, deposed Nigerian government official?
  • 70 The Rabid CF Developer // Jan 17, 2006 at 2:11 PM

    "Ray Horn, its not that you are trying to make money, its the underhanded way in which you are going about it.
    "

    Oh dear me, dare I try to make money using less than ethical means ?!? How ghastly.

    Do you have any idea of just how valuable my talents would be IF only I were able to make money using less than ethical means ?

    The pods that you mmentioned were released in error and quickly removed in future ZIP files.

    In any case, the pods you mentioned could be easily removed and replaced with those the user wished to use instead - no big deal.
  • 71 Scott Stroz // Jan 17, 2006 at 2:14 PM

    So, you admit your tactics are unethical, and you just don't care.

    I repeat, you truly are scum.
  • 72 Scott Stroz // Jan 17, 2006 at 2:20 PM

    'Do you have any idea of just how valuable my talents would be IF only I were able to make money using less than ethical means ?'

    I'd say...$0.00 after this debacle.
  • 73 The Rabid CF Developer // Jan 17, 2006 at 2:21 PM

    I admit NOTHING.

    I repeat, "I did NOT have sex with that woman."

  • 74 The Rabid CF Developer // Jan 17, 2006 at 2:47 PM

    'Do you have any idea of just how valuable my talents would be IF only I were able to make money using less than ethical means ?'

    I'd say...$0.00 after this debacle.
    ============================
    Been there, done that ! The world is a much larger place than you think and even if the CF world is so closly knit that I suddenly find myself without employment well let's just say CF ain't the only language I can code and I would still be around being a thorn in your sides regardless.
    ============================
  • 75 Jesuswept // Jan 17, 2006 at 3:04 PM

    Firstly, how can a user remove the adsense id stuff if its encrypted and they don't even know its there?

    Thanks scott for the heads up on that issue.

    As for you lawyer Ray, your resume states mainly that you are a CF coder, as does your blog and previous jobs, what would you have to offer other clients other than the fact they may not be using legitimate code that you claim you are using?
  • 76 The Rabid CF Developer // Jan 17, 2006 at 3:08 PM

    Firstly, how can a user remove the adsense id stuff if its encrypted and they don't even know its there?

    Thanks scott for the heads up on that issue.

    As for you lawyer Ray, your resume states mainly that you are a CF coder, as does your blog and previous jobs, what would you have to offer other clients other than the fact they may not be using legitimate code that you claim you are using?
    ==================================

    The Pod interface is well known and well document and even though a CF page is encrypted it can be replaced BION.

    Or did you not think an encrypted page "could" be replaced ?!?
  • 77 Jesuswept // Jan 17, 2006 at 3:11 PM

    What I am saying is, to correct a problem you have to be AWARE of the problem, the very fact that you masked it in an encrypted template means that most people won't know what a scumbag tactic you just used.
  • 78 stabellina // Jan 17, 2006 at 3:13 PM

    And you get all this provided you pay him.
  • 79 The Rabid CF Developer // Jan 17, 2006 at 3:13 PM

    What I am saying is, to correct a problem you have to be AWARE of the problem, the very fact that you masked it in an encrypted template means that most people won't know what a scumbag tactic you just used.
    =========================

    No offense to the handicapped intended...

    But unless you are blind you would "see" the fact that certain Pods are not intended for public use merely because they display content meant for another's site.

    Geez, I hope nobody who is actually blind read this one. *gasp*
  • 80 Jesuswept // Jan 17, 2006 at 3:20 PM

    I sometimes wonder if in fact its you who are mentally handicapped or somewhat deficient, because i've never seen a grown man defend such underhand tactics

    whether its the idea of making OSS as obscure and hard to change as possible

    Or rebranding someone elses work and trying to pass it off as your own and sell it on

    Or whether its embedding your own details as to try and create a cashflow from some sort of backdoor.

    And the time you "Try your hardest" to apologise, its actually more of a slap in the face to the time, effort and hard work ray put into his blog so that you could unscrupulously rip it off and then in the same breath whine about its "flaws", flaws that no one else has even seen.

    You may have ability, but you lack common sense and an ehtical understanding of open source software and the ethics to make it as a decent human being in this community.

    And then you compound it all in to a big thick Brick of disgrace by defending your horrible tactics on this page, run some damage control and just quit whilst you're ahead
  • 81 The Rabid CF Developer // Jan 17, 2006 at 3:33 PM

    I thought I made it perfectly clear that I am NOT going to apologize.

    I do NOT give in to terrorists.

    "Give a mouse a cookie and it will want more..."
  • 82 Jesuswept // Jan 17, 2006 at 3:36 PM

    BELGIAN ROFL'S!!!

    Terrorists!? are you shitting me?!
    First we RAPE your blog and now we're Terrorists?

    Do you KNOW anyone who's been raped and the emotional damage it causes?

    Do you KNOW any victims of terrorism and it too that the damage can cause?

    Firstly, I'd like to point out that you have already semi apologised and removed links and other things from your blog, thus giving in to us "terrorists"

    Secondly you cannot label anyone here a terrorist, i mean, thats really really puerile.

    And i thought the links you sent me at rayhornsucks.onesite.com were laughably immature, you just keep outdoing yourself.

    Bravo.
  • 83 stabellina // Jan 17, 2006 at 3:43 PM

    He refers to himself as a rabid dog and a rat. I don't think he has very high self-esteem. Maybe some counseling might help.
  • 84 The Rabid CF Developer // Jan 17, 2006 at 3:57 PM

    Wow, I am famous - got my own fan site and everything. Kewl !

    rayhornsucks.onesite.com <-- this site rocks !
  • 85 stabellina // Jan 17, 2006 at 3:58 PM

    There's the sign of someone trying too hard to pretend not to care. :/ Seek help.
  • 86 Critter // Jan 17, 2006 at 5:32 PM

    /me gets another bowl of popcorn

    *munch*
  • 87 Joe Rinehart // Jan 17, 2006 at 5:44 PM

    Running this post (and comments) through Gizoogle was really fun. Here's a few choice bits to lighten things up:

    "At least they hizzle tha decency ta say 'I am no expert whizzen it comes ta Open Source Develizzles'    - as if that wasn't obvious ta help you tap dat ass.

    "I thizzay this homey has had one too mizzle Jolt Colas"

    "Open Source code n makes modificizzles n tizzle releaze encrypted modules thizzat contain said enhanced code n T-H-to-tha-izzen imply a donation mizzight be made"

    "In brotha words, if you code Open Source code then be stoked whizzen thugz use it fo` baller purpose"

    "You is *nizzot* allowed ta do whateva you wish wit any Open Source product you find . Freak y'all, into the beat y'all."

    "I hizzle asked fo` donations but you knizzay wizzle?"

    "My apologies ta Ray Camden fo` weed-smokin'"

    "Let's jizzy cizzay me a worst-case-test-scenario n be dizzle wit it, S-H-to-tha-izzall we ?"

    "Baller read'n list suggestion doggystyle: The Cathedral n tha Bazaar h t t p Doggy Stylin'"

    "Hey.. hizzle you heard of this guy? He has applied ta wizzle here, n I am think'n of straight trippin' him."

    "Re-distribizzle is very clearly not covered by fizzle use, nor is any commercial gizzy."

    "Ah, but "fair use" in tha context of a Bizzy site tizzle was established ta support n fosta tha science of weed-smokin' in W-H-to-tha-izzich every single pizzy is designed ta teach sum-m sum-m"

    "You is rhymin' yo unethical paractizzles based on tha fact tizzle you were fired?...I'm a mutha fuckin 2-time felon.."

    "Posted By Scizzott Striznoz" - my personal favorite, and destined to be the Zoid's new nickname. Scizzzzzot.

    "I repeat, you truly is scum."

    "gang bangin' anotha blogga's gangsta odd vizzle of Open Source develizzle."

    "Izzle downloaded tha .-Z-to-tha-izzip file,"



  • 88 Seth Petry-Johnson // Jan 17, 2006 at 8:37 PM

    ====
    You is rhymin' yo unethical paractizzles based on tha fact tizzle you were fired?...I'm a mutha fuckin 2-time felon..
    ====

    ROFL! I'm glad Sean is running an older version of BlogCFC and couldn't disable comments earlier, cuz this last post by Joe made my day fo shizzle!
  • 89 tony of the weeg clan // Jan 17, 2006 at 10:42 PM

    shit... i was only reading ray's blog about this. little did i know it made the wave it made, that quickly. like critter, thank god i made a bowl of popcorn!

    anyway, the bottom line is this... and daniel greenfield i knew you'd end up here... i think this speaks VOLUMES about the cf-community, and i'm damn glad to be a proud member of it. when a diverse group such as this sticks up for one of its members in this fashion, that fuckin rocks!

    yah, i think its a bit of a waste of brain space, i mean... my peeps of the cf community...

    to me its like this...

    <cfset goodKarmaAndOSSLogic = HereYaGoRay>

    <cfabort>

    <cfset rayHorn.getsIt = true>

    and wondering why it isnt making sense to him.

    whatever, its fun i guess to watch this happen, im not sure what it will do for any of us, but let ray c. know how much we care and want to protect our own!
  • 90 tony of the weeg clan // Jan 17, 2006 at 10:43 PM

    and joe, that was the best thing i could have read. the gizoogle run down... WOW. funny as heeell!

    thank you.
    time to go to sleep.
  • 91 The Rabid CF Developer // Jan 17, 2006 at 10:44 PM

    ====
    You is rhymin' yo unethical paractizzles based on tha fact tizzle you were
    fired?...I'm a mutha fuckin 2-time felon..
    ====
    ============================

    You should really stop smoking that weed. It will only rot your mind.
  • 92 stabellina // Jan 18, 2006 at 4:57 AM

    Sounds like you would know. That would explain a lot about you!

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